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| One more question off the list.... http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=9371 |
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| Author: | Tom Armstrong [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:37 am ] |
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Is there a sound reason or is it just tradition that the joint of the body and neck meet at a specific fret. Why not 13 1/2 instead of 13th or 14th fret? I'm sure ( I hope) that others beside me have needed to cut twice after measuring only once. |
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| Author: | Tom Armstrong [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:56 am ] |
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Thanks Hesh. Rod....hope you're tuning in. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:08 am ] |
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I think Santa Cruz recently introduced a 13 fret to the body instrument. Seems odd to me as it's really goes against tradition as far as I know. But I suppose the it's really about placing the bridge in a different spot on the soundboard, at least that's the way I'd look at it. |
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| Author: | Jimmy Caldwell [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:23 am ] |
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The first 13 fret that I'm aware of was introduced by Gibson in the late 20's - early 30's. It was one of the Nick Lucas models and today they are highly prized instruments. There are a number of luthiers offering a 13 fret design, the most notable among them John Greven. I've played one of John's Braz./Adi Nick Lucas models and it's outstanding. If you look long and hard enough, you can find a precedent for almost anything in the world of lutherie. |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:54 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Jimmy Caldwell] The first 13 fret that I'm aware of was introduced by Gibson in the late 20's - early 30's. It was one of the Nick Lucas models and today they are highly prized instruments. There are a number of luthiers offering a 13 fret design, the most notable among them John Greven. I've played one of John's Braz./Adi Nick Lucas models and it's outstanding. If you look long and hard enough, you can find a precedent for almost anything in the world of lutherie.[/QUOTE] Didn't know that bit of history. Thanks Jimmy! |
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| Author: | old man [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:06 am ] |
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I've seen 13's but not 13 1/2. It won't matter as long as the total scale length is correct and frets are spaced properly. I think.  However, I would think that if your bracing and bridge plate and soundhole are set up for a 14 fretter, going to 13 1/3 would throw off the scale quite a bit. I'm old, though, and getting as grouchy as Mario, and inexperienced, so please don't listen to me.
Ron |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:16 am ] |
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The bracing would of course have to be layed out for the new bridge loaction. You couldn't take a standard plan and just put the bridge in the new location. At least I wouldn't. |
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| Author: | KiwiCraig [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:30 am ] |
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I'm doing a thirteen fretter on my current build. The bracing and bridge layout has been adjusted for it. It puts the bridge a little towards the lower bout , so it should work the soundboard a bit better ,as in a 12 fretter. I suppose it's a compromise between a 14 and 12 fretter, but ideal for my 12 string build. If the neck set doesn't go as planned , it could well end up a twelve and a half fretter 
Regards Craig Lawrence |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:14 pm ] |
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It's really my understanding that it's beyond the traditional side of things. If you look at the size and shape of the body alond with the placement of the bridge along with the scale, they all are equally important. I'm sure Al C witl have some hard data on the bridge placement versus body size etc.... But if you think about it, the scale gives a certain amount of tension on the top right. Say you choose a 25.4 scale on a 00 body size, martin made there 14 fretter 18-7/8" long with 24.9" scale. Well, now you've added 1/2" to the scale which will push the bridge, bracing soundhole etc... back 1/2" as well. Now, this is where I don't know anything, the first stuff is just math, but by moving the bridge and bracing further into the lower bout, what does that do for the sound. The fret location and the scale go hand in hand I think. Please, someone with more brains and certainly more knowledge than me chime in here. Just so you all know, the only difference in a martin OM and a 000 14 fret is the scale length, everything else (body size that is) is the same. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:15 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=KiwiCraig] I'm doing a thirteen fretter on my current build. The bracing and bridge layout has been adjusted for it. It puts the bridge a little towards the lower bout , so it should work the soundboard a bit better ,as in a 12 fretter. I suppose it's a compromise between a 14 and 12 fretter, but ideal for my 12 string build. If the neck set doesn't go as planned , it could well end up a twelve and a half fretter
Regards Craig Lawrence[/QUOTE] Craig, what scale are you using on this 13 fretter? |
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| Author: | KiwiCraig [ Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:26 pm ] |
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G'day Rod, My 13 fretter is 24.9 scale. I closed the xbrace sightly to 95 degree and moved them down about an 1/4 " from my 25.4" set up . It places the bridge around 5/8 " further back than a 14 fretter with a 25.4" scale. Regards Craig Lawrence |
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| Author: | martinedwards [ Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:23 am ] |
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I'm finishing a kids guitar. I made it with a fender scale maple fingerboard. I cut the F/B at the 2nd fret and NOW it has a 12th fret join. If the customer comes back in 5 years and says longer scale please, I can put on a new neck WITHOUT the cut F/B and it'll be a 14th join. As I don't work from plans It makes little difference to me. I'm considering a guitar shaped bouzuki soon and it'll be made with a guitar scale f/b. Not a CLUE as to where the neck join will be. I'll brace the top, cut the neck mortice then see how much room I have to play with!!! BTW, I bet there's superstition abou the 13th fret just like 13th floors on skyscrapers........ |
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| Author: | Sam Price [ Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:33 am ] |
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I'm gonna try building a cittern with a 16 fret join... That's why I've been making enquiries about carbon re-inforcements....
Knowt superstitious about that, it's just that I've got a feeling that I'd be terribly bad at making cutaways.. |
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